During his last trip for community meetings in Hilo, Mr. Sabino Asor, the Chairman of the Public Education for the Chuuk Political Status Commission (CPSC) agreed to a one-hour, one-on-0ne interview with me. We had agreed for that interview to take place on January 7, 2015, at 2:00 – 3:00 PM at my office on the campus of the University of Hawaii at Hilo, his alma mater. Chairman Asor agreed to the on-camera interview after his colleague Commissioner Winiplat Bisalen declined my invitation and CPSC Secretary Johnny Meippen agreed to send written rebuttals to the questions posted on this website, but never followed through.
Sadly, Mr. Asor showed up to the interview 57 minutes late and because of prior commitments, I could not proceed with a 3-minute interview. But thankfully he agreed to provide written answers to the questions I had prepared for the interview. So, I immediately emailed him the full interview script and questions (see below). I copied the following CPSC members: Johnny Meippen <johnnymeippen@gmail.com>, Mark Mailo <amj653@gmail.com>, Winiplat Bisalem <winiplatbisalen@mail.fm>, and Kachutosy Paulus <kachutosy@hotmail.com> to ensure complete transparency. I had promised them that I would publish their answers verbatim. To date I have not received any response to these questions.
I was going to give the CPSC members the benefit of the doubt. But given their recent claim that they have done the best they can to educate the Chuukese community (aka, “You People”) abroad, I want to now give them one more chance publicly to respond to these questions and all the other questions including the Fact Sheet from Attorney Jim Stovalli regarding the Compact implications.
Interview with AG Sabino Asor
Conducted by Vidalino Raatior
January 7, 2015
UH Hilo
Agenda
Salutation: Today I am sitting down with Chuuk State Attorney General Mr. Sabino Asor in his capacity as the Chairman of the Public Hearing initiative of the Chuuk Political Status Commission (CPSC). Sir, thank you for agreeing to be interviewed today.
This interview will be aired in its entirety and published on the Chuuk State Reform website: www.chuukstate.org for public consumption.
Let me begin by stating upfront for our viewers that as of today, January 7, 2015, I am NOT convinced that an independent Republic of Chuuk outside of the FSM is the best option for Chuukese citizens. It is especially alarming for Chuukese citizens who are living, working, studying, seeking healthcare in the United States under the protection of the Compact of Free Association. I am hoping that through this conversation and further research I will come to appreciate the Commission’s views and maybe even change my own viewpoints.
Having said that, let me ask you these questions:
1) LACK OF PUBLIC INPUT IN CPSC DECISION: Let’s start with the enabling law that created the Commission: My understanding is that the law created the commission to look at ALL options for Chuuk in preparation for the year 2023 when the economic provision of the Compact expires. Can you elaborate on why it seems the commission made the conclusion for secession without getting the public input first?
2) IMMIGRATION: The immigration provision of the Compact is NOT expiring in 2023. If Chuuk secedes from the FSM and the Compact, it will leave the thousands of Chuukese citizens ineligible to work and live in the US as they will no longer be FSM citizens. What plan does the Commission have to deal with this projected immigration nightmare for Chuukese citizens in Guam, Hawaii, and the US mainland while the Republic of Chuuk negotiates its own Compact with the US.
3) FINANCIAL STABILITY: You and the Commission has been consistently pointing to the current division of financial resources among the 4 states in the FSM. You’ve made statements about Chuuk deserving to get its fair share of the fishing licenses in the EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) for the FSM. Why not fight this battle while remaining in the FSM?
4) LOSS OF COMPACT SERVICES: If Chuuk secedes from the FSM, it will mean the loss of services currently in place by the Compact including Pell Grants, ability to serve in the US military, FAA, etc. What’s the plan to protect the loss of these services while the Republic of Chuuk negotiates its own Compact with the US?
5) IMPROVING CHUUK STATE FIRST: Many people out there think that Chuuk State needs to be improved first before we can set out to seek nationhood. How will an independent Republic of Chuuk be any different from the State of Chuuk in its lack of infrastructures, terrible public education, poor public health services, inefficient fiscal management, corrupt leadership, and so forth?
6) RIGHTS OF CHUUKESE ABROAD TO VOTE: You indicated in your memo to the Commission your personal apprehension about letting Chuukese living abroad to vote on the referendum. On face value, you as the AG do not believe that Chuukese abroad who I assume have been anti secession for obvious reasons should not vote on this. Can you explain what you meant?
– End –
Dr. Vid Raatior
Dr. Vid Raatior is a proud Chuukese parent, educator, citizen blogger, and social entrepreneur living in the US.
Follow Me:
WHY EXCLUDING CHUUKESE CITIZENS THAT ARE LIVING OUTSIDE CHUUK FROM VOTING FOR THE STATE ELECTION???
WHAT KIND OF LEGAL RIGHT THIS GOVERNMENT OF CHUUK IS EXERCISING ON US CHUUKESE CITIZENS????
AND WHO AMONG THIS CHUUKESE LEADERS AMENDED THIS LAW IN OUR GOVERNMENT???
WHO APPOINTED THIS COMMISSION BOARD MEMBERS????
Vid, these are the answer I can finally manage for our long-awaited interview.
(I sort of paraphrased the questions when taking notes, but are substantively the same).
1.Did Commission solicit Public Input in its Recommendation for Chuuk to Secede from the FSM and become Independent?
The law [that created the Chuuk State Status Commission] DOES stipulate that the Commission solicits public input in the formulation of its recommendation on which political options to recommend to the Chuuk State Government. The Commission understands its mandate, and was also of the opinion that THE MANNER of carrying out its mandate was discretionary: it could go out to the people and ask them which political option the people want (i.e. commonwealth, or status quo, or US statehood or independence); or it could do the comparison itself and present to the people which option the Commission believes is advisable. The people could present alternative options.
During internal Commission discussions, the choice initially was between Independence and Status Quo (remaining in the FSM). The Commission created two special committees to advise on either choice. The Committee chaired by Mr Pandinus Suzuki provided its recommendation for Independence; the Committee chaired by Mr Johnny Meippen for Status Quo decided they did not need to submit a recommendation; that Status Quo debate could be addressed through debate on Independence.
During public hearing, people do ask about the other choices: status quo; commonwealth; US statehood. The Commission explains that Independence offers more freedom for Chuuk and more options through which to improve its economic development requirements compared with remaining within the FSM. The Commission Report submitted to the Chuuk State Legislature therefore summed up the Commission’s perspective regarding all those other options and its emphatic recommendation for Secession and Independence.
2. Since the Immigration Provisions of the Amended Compact (which permit FSM citizens to i.e. live and work in the US) are not expiring in 2023 like the Financial Assistance provisions, What plan does the Chuuk Status Commission have to ensure the Chuukese people’s rights to remain and work in the US?
From the beginning, the Commission was actually split on how the FSM could secede itself from the FSM and become Independence. At first some commissioners thought Secession would mean secession from both the FSM and the Amended Compact of Free Association with the US, like Chairman Paulus and Speaker Oneisom, wrote those literature (posted on MicronesiaForum), expressing disappointment with the US administration of the Amended Compact. Some commissioners, based on their business familiarity with Taiwanese businesses, even went so far as anticipating closer economic relationship with Taiwan like Palau and the Marshall Islands.
During the drafting of the Commission Report (for the State Legislature), we had to push to delete all references to Taiwanese foreign assistance because we explained, although Chuuk may need Taiwanese economic assistance like Palau and the Marshall Islands, an Independent Chuuk would need Mainland China’s economic and diplomatic support more, such as in the UN Security Council where China could veto a Chuuk Independence movement if such a movement was tilted toward Taiwan.
On the extent of an Independent Chuuk’s secession from the FSM and the Amended Compact, you can see that the Commission is also split on the IMPLICATIONS of Secession.
During our second hearing in Hilo in early January, 2015, I showed the illustration Timeline that if the March 2025 is YES, Chuuk State would NEED TO DO THREE THINGS to move the process forward:
1. Chuuk will need to establish a Constitutional Convention to draft an Independent Chuuk Constitution;
2. Chuuk will need to sit down and work with the FSM to begin effectuating the Secession: (negotiate, legislate or litigate issues i.e. Chuuk State’s entitlement share of the Compact and FSM trust funds; Chuukese entitlement to FSM Social Security benefits; how to transition FSM passport entitlement to Chuuk passport; if the FSM insists the FSM Constitution needs to be amended also, the amendment process has to be completed also between the March 2015 and 2023. Remember this last point remains a matter of contention between the FSM, i.e. see FSM AG responses, and the Chuuk Status Commission which thinks the FSM Constitution does not expressly prohibit Secession, so the belief is for Chuuk to declare independence and begin implementing unilateral independence without an FSM Constitutional amendment. I individually am hoping it does not go this contentious way because it will complicate Chuuk’s resolution of all the items here under #2 and #3);
3. Chuuk will also need to sit and work with the US on how to amend the FSM-US Compact to make a separate Chuuk-US Compact: ( i.e. how to transition FSM citizens’ rights to enter and live in the US to Chuukese citizens; how to continue eligibility for US assistance like Pell grants; disaster assistance; FAA and Homeland security protections; etc).
As our Timeline discussion suggested, if the new Independent Chuuk Constitution would be voted upon in 2017 affirmatively, the Constitution itself can declare transition of all the functions under Items #2 and #3 to the new Chuuk Government to be completed before 2023. So that when 2023 finally arrives, Chuukese citizens would already have had their FSM passports transitioned or changed to Chuuk passport between 2017 to 2023; or the new Chuuk Government would already have procedures established between 2017 and 2023 for its shares of the trust funds to be disbursed to the Independent Chuuk Government before 2023 actually arrived.
3. Why is Chuuk opting for Secession and Independence for its financial stability? Why not remain in the FSM and fight for its financial and economic development?
Yes, one of the two major reasons for Chuuk’s opting for Secession from the existing FSM Constitutional Framework is in response to the projected fiscal deficit (SBOC’s figure of $21 million starting 2024) as a result of the scheduled cessation of US Compact financial assistance to the entire FSM. (The other major reason is Chuuk’s view of its sovereignty being unduly sacrificed for the sake of national unity).
On the financial security reason, as the ongoing debate has revealed, two (2) factors contribute to Chuuk’s decision here on the financially motivated Secession option: (a) the weak pace of economic development in Chuuk itself and the entire FSM, and (b) the FSM constitutional framework which cannot require/mandate the national government to give up or share some of its excess revenues to assist Chuuk and the other states with their projected deficits. The second factor includes the FSM fishing license fees and foreign corporate registration revenues, its exclusive role in conducting foreign affairs and accessing foreign assistance, coupled with the constitutional mandate that all foreign assistance be divided equally among all the five factors, despite Chuuk’s view that being the most populated state, it should have been entitled to more assistance.
Chuuk welcomes all the national suggestions for accelerated economic development or strengthening the economy before the fiscal deficit arrives in 2023, or eight years away. But from Chuuk’s point of view, the pace of economic development is too late for the eight-year preparation period before 2023, and so while we will continue on economic development efforts, we also need a new system (Secession) where new major sources of revenues for Chuuk will be available or assured before 2023.
Try to picture Chuuk’s demand for a restructuring of the existing FSM constitutional system for the sake of assured revenues sources in the same way China required a new world economic order to satisfy its mammoth economic development requirements. When China began to realize its need for raw materials and capital to feed its massive national economic development effort, it went out from its traditional communist system and worked to change existing international alliances so as to gain access to raw materials and capital from around the world (i.e. establishing alliances with Pakistan, South American countries for oil and minerals, African alliances for more minerals, Australia, etc). That is the same self-preservation motive that Chuuk now seeks with its effort to secede itself from the constraining FSM constitutional framework and pursue new sources of life saving revenues.
4. Why does Chuuk have to secede and become Independent to Improve? Why can’t Chuuk try to improve itself first and then seek independence later?
See also Answer to Item #3 above.
Chuuk is improving itself these days, slowly but definitely. With the help of the financial reform assisted by the FSM and President Mori himself, and JEMCO’s implementation of the Amended Compact’s Fiscal Procedures Agreement (FPA), Chuuk’s financial management has been complimented repeatedly in successive audit reports since 2008. But even such commendable financial management performances will not be enough to make up the gaping deficit of $21 million within the next short eight years. To repeat our example from our public hearings, if Chuuk cannot find assured sources to make up the $21 million deficit from its sector grants, that would mean abolition of the entire departments of education and health services in Chuuk and all those agencies currently funded by Compact sector grants.
The economic effects will be an economic meltdown for the state: lay off of education and health services employees of about a 1000 employees; loss of wellbeing for their families, loss of their sales and income taxes, in turn reduce the state’s annual revenue collection, requiring additional reductions in government employment and services. Also remember that the reduction in state revenue also has a direct effect on the ability to operate the 40 municipalities: the $21 million deficit for the state will mean a near total reduction in all municipal functions as there will be no fund, for example, to pay for municipal police officers who are the primary line of defense against disorders in the far flung outer islands.
Some critics argue that Chuuk can make up the projected deficit by disciplining itself first, using money wisely and cutting unnecessary spending in travels and hiring, for example, or punishing wrongdoers to pay back money. I think some of these critics do not really have an idea how simplistic their views are given the magnitude of the projected deficit. A unicameralization of the Legislature for example, will only save up to one half of a million dollars a year in personnel costs, hardly enough to make up for the projected $21 million. A total cut in government annual local revenue travels would add another half a million saving, again hardly enough to make up for the annual deficit of $21 million.
A lot of people think this is boring stuff, but we do have to consider the issues, not only in their abstract academic terms, but especially in their real world human implications to appreciate the urgency of the problem.
5. What do you mean or why did you suggest “that Chuukese living abroad should not participate in the Chuuk March 2015 Plebiscite vote?”
I did say that, but let’s not take it out of context again, (like my statements with the US Embassy official which people have called it a lie after Ambassador Rosen’s subsequent statement).
When I raised the question (whether the Chuuk Status Commission and Chuuk State have a moral duty to extend the March 2015 Plebiscite vote to the Chuukese voters in the US jurisdictions), I raised that as an academic question, not because I do not believe in the citizens’ rights to vote, but because from the public hearings with the Chuukese outside, I detected an unbelievable degree of insensitivity about the possible economic disaster for the Chuukese families in Chuuk in 2024.
I could not believe that Chuukese in Guam, Honolulu and Hilo would insist the Chuuk Status Commission should not recommend any future political status change because they do not want their comfortable lives in the US impacted when it is clear Chuukese families back home will face a financial disaster after 2023, affecting daily lives for those thousands of families (as I explained under Items #3 and #4 above). I thought if a way could be found to help the families back home deal with the financial disaster and at the same time leave the people in the US alone to their comfortable live styles.
People should understand that was no official statement of policy or law, just a human mental anguish in light of the lack of concern from those Chuukese abroad.
However, given the growing public interest in the Chuuk Secession issue, the challenge is getting even more and more compelling to address the issue based on a balancing of the interests (i.e. passport, immigration, etc) of those Chuukese abroad versus the interest (governmental revenue and family financial security) for those Chuukese back home. We cannot simply ignore either side.
Thank you for the opportunity, and let me know if there are more questions.
Why is bantinus Suzuki still around..?? Isn’t he the first chuukese porn star.??
Chuuk is improving.?????????
How many jobs the government of Chuuk has created in the past month, January .?? Give us the number and type of jobs.???
Wow! Do they really have the right to exclude citizens abroad from voting their rights?
Honestly, it sure doesn’t sound like a faithful leader
I am really sick and tired of these lies that these commissioners have been telling the people of Chuuk. I mean, look at them! All bunch of greedy lying politicians. Most of them have bad reputations from misusing money to having multiple spouses. Are these the kinds of leaders we really want? And now, they are thinking of taking away the right TO VOTE of those who are living abroad?! For goodness sake! Thats a RIGHT that cannot be taken away from the people.
Ami meinisin jon ei commission ita kich mei fen sufenuti kemi me meniniti kemi nge ami ei amwokut a crossed the line. Seriously!
En mwa Kachu, ese wor epwe chiwen nukuk won omw mi criminal. A major suspect for planning the murder of Late Aten. Ami Sabino me Johnny, oukan emweu ese wor epwe ingeiti kemi won ami pwunuweni fitemon. Nuwen teenage nge oua chinnap otono. Iwe en mwa Winipinat, kopwene pwan kukutiw won omw mi neuni fite ngereu mwonien Polowat Municipality. Napengeni ami meinisin jon na commission, mei wor feferungawemi. INa pwata ese ii wor epwe jiwen nuku kokkot minne mei nomw fan ami ammwen.
Johnny, non omw ewe post won facebook, ika pwe usapw mwaan non ai weweiti, ke era nge Vid epwe fen etinong angaang Chuuk me an kei osukosuk minne ii (Vid) along with many Chuukese citizens ran away from non ami oua wesen pekus ne angaanga. Well, to tell you the truth, I dont see any changes ever since I left Chuuk to seek a better education 4 years ago tori ai ei uwa angei nei BAs, niwin ngeni Chuuk, ese wor ai angaang pwe oua wesen nipwakeech won ami we “Pachification”. Iwe let me tell you something about Vid, he founded the Micronesia Dental Support Project, seeks projects from outside countries to donate technological stuff to schools in the Northwest Region, helps in educating people abroad about your initiated movement which “You people” (I am referring to you folks on the commission) failed to do, and many more. Iwe kesapw era pwe VId echek namwomwaan won ekkena fonuwen nukun nge ese wor an aninis ngeni aramasen Chuuk. Upwe fen tongeni era pwe I witnessed the many things that he does for Chuukese students going to school at UH-Hilo. Esapw jek chon Chuuk pwe unusen Pacific Islands. Ii a fakun ajojo ne ekipwiji, anganga fefeitan an choon sukunen Chuuk kao fansoun ar tonong non college minne ami nouwisin Chuuk ouse tongeni. Processin mwo scholarship checks nge it takes half a year to do. Nge en, me chiechiomw kana jon na commission, met oua fefferi out of your own pleasure minne mei beneficial ngeni chon Chuuk? Ina oupwe nampa ew non ewe metoch, SONANI MWONIEN CHUUK! Iwe ina pwopwun oupwene kan sit the F@%# down iwe oua HANG UP!
Osupwangach chon Chuuk ren nouch ekkei nouwis re atapwana mettoch fan iten met re mochen me fan iten tipe kuomw..
Ladies and Gentalmen…Brothers and Sisters…My diehard fellow concern citizens of Chuuk…
This is what Sabino ( a.k.a Taxi-womw) had said in other post.
” if chuukese people are not convinced to help support the secession idea, he ( Sabino) and CPSC members including Congressman-Bonsiano Fasi Nethon will and I said will…lure you to Weno and convince/ persuade you over; beer, rice, cup of coffee, episukuwen-turkey, sewing machine, motor engine, plane ticket and many more…he ( Sabino ) clearly said to meet Congressman Nethon at the Southern Namoneas Development Authority office, right above the BANK of Guam in Nepukos..”
Pwipwi chuukese, this is how our leaders are today- a sack of rice for your “vote”
This is no excuse, this is absolutely wrong, this is bribery.. This is why we ( Chuuk) is way underdeveloped..this is clearly misuse of public funds, misuse of power and misuse of their own intellegenc…
They ( chuukese leaders) pointing middle fingers at the US and FSM,blaming them for the mess in Chuuk, while pocketing thousands of dollars in their filthy pockets…
The problem is not the FSM or US, it’s us-chuukese. There’s no honesty in our state of Chuuk..
Promise you, a Republic of Chuuk with the same folks, will never change anything…ROC will eventually vanish from the Universe…
Achocho vote ” F**k NO.!
oh really? I want better healthcare, better paying jobs, and better education in Chuuk first over those casen episuk. I don’t drink beer and I ain’t planning to start with this Secession. I can buy casen episuk with my paycheck BTW. Leaders always use Bribery!!! That’s because that’s the only thing they can offer. They don’t have Leadership, Duty, Respect, Selfless Service, Integrity, Personal Courage. These are the values that Army soldiers live by. Try adopting them.
That is true indeed..!
give us your detail plan 1. Who is funding your agenda? 2 . What is Chuuk national budget earning from private sector annually give us the total numbers . Do you really think that much money will be enough for this absurd plan for Chuuk to separate from the FSM comon commissioner be for real why not fight this battle in both houses and express your absurd viewpoint
Vid, please give me after this weekend to send out my Interview answers.
FanCool, will you please send to me the entire post you quoted from above about turkey tails and Congressman Nethon. It sounds familiar but I do not know where it was posted. And why are you using that quote? You say it is “birbery.” Please distinguish between humor/sarcasm and serious discussion. Don’t get into the habit of quoting things out of context.
You can’t shut the people out. You can’t take their rights to vote away. whether they live or not on the U.S, it is their right to choose how n where to live their lives. First of all it is not their fault for leaving Chuuk, and its not for the good reasons too. Do not expect the chuukese citizens abroad to shut their mouth, they work so hard to get to where their at right now. so is it really fair to take away all their hard work because the leaders did not do their job right?..and matter of fact is they did not fly out of their home land for nothing. they live in the U.S, they work hard even with their lack of english and knowledge they still work for their families back home. They took matters into their own hands and seek for better opportunity/help for themselves and their families. So why exclude the rights for chuukese citizens abroad to vote?..is it because they will VOTE NO!!!.
we will call him a corrupt leader of chuuk!!!!!1
sabino please get more information from vid because he’s right
all the member of the commission are lack of doing their work for our state…
reminder: let all vote for a huge NO!!!!!!!!!
sabino
tirou womw..
ill send you the quote?? sounds familiar?? but it does ring the bell,right??
what you said couple yrs ago comes back to hunt you down…
out of context?? it wasnt a humor or sarcasm.. its definitly a ridicule..mocking the people of SN especially macheweichun..
professional AG chooses their words wisely..not running around like duck…
no need give you the quote because you know what im talking about..!
tirou sefan womw pwipwi..